riscy
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Re: ARC 100 Prices

To: andy@waldorf-gmbh.de, broadley@neurocog.lrdc.pitt.edu
Subject: Re: ARC 100 Prices
From: Andreas Busse <andy@waldorf-gmbh.de>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 09:18:46 +0100
Cc: riscy@sunsite.unc.edu
Bill Broadley wrote:
> Please send the previous message back to me, or to the list (it was meant
> to go to the list, as well as you).

Here it comes.

Cheers,
Andy

------------------------------snip------------------------------
> I have made a very rough cost estimation.
> Some of the prices are varying from day to day.
> Others aren't really up-to-date because I couldn't
> get the latest price in time.
> So don't wonder, the price will change but I don't
> know how much.

Rough estimation is appreciated.

> Motherboard w/o RAM and CPU,          DM  2000.-- / us$1185.--
> incl. SCSI, serial/parallel,
> FDC, Ethernet, EISA Ctrl. etc.

Do I understand this correctly?  us$1185=410+550+40+33+motherboard$$$????

So the motherboard alone cost $152??  (I hope so)

> Video sub board, incl. 2 Meg VRAM     DM   700.-- / us$410.--

Does this make sense compared to the nice S3-928 video boards
(probably even eisa) for $300 or so?  (the s3 greatly reduces the
load on the bus)

> Audio sub board                               DM   950.-- / us$550.--

OUCH sounds way to much.  44.1 KHz 16 bit stereo play/record
cost less then $200 for ISA maybe even eisa.  Sound boards don't
push the bus very hard.

> Ethernet AUI sub board                        DM    70.-- / us$40.--

Reasonable.  

> Keyboard Ctrl. sub board              DM    55.-- / us$33.--

Seems a prime candidate for putting on the motherboard, but it's cheap
either way.

> current CPU prices in qtys of 10:     
> (no retail price, this is the price we pay)
> 
> R4400PC/50                            DM  1647,-- / us$968.--
> R4600-100                             DM   839.-- / us$493,--

I have a postscript doc comparing the 4600 to the 4400, and is intended
to guide system designers who wish to do a single system design which can
be used with either the R4200 or the R4600 processor.    (sounds like it's
written for us)

sgigate.sgi.com:/pub/doc/r4x00/R4x00_common_design.ps

Heres a quick comparison:
                R4600                           R4400PC
Cache           16/16 2 way associative         16/16 direct mapped
Cache miss      3 cycles                        5-8 cycles.
load latency    2 cycles                        3 cycles
Branch latency  2 cycles                        4 cycles
Uncached store  4 doublewords (4 addresses)     1 doubleword
                doubles as write buffer
Int mult        4 cycles to issue               1 cycle to issue
Int divide      4 cycles to issue               69 cycles to issue

I don't think theres any reason to consider the R4400PC.  I think the
R4200 will be VERY important to the affordability of the project.  So the
question should be R4200 or R4600?

I believe Drew offered to handle the linux scsi driver for the NCR53cf94 
(very nice chip from what I hear) chip if we decided to use it.  I'm not 
sure this offer still stands.

I ask anyone out there which would be the bigger win?

A:  Change the motherboard to use NCR chip and take advantage of Drew's
        help? 

B:  Or leave the motherboard design as is an write our own scsi driver for
        this unknown (to me) emulex chip?  I worry about the emulex because
        I haven't heard of it and linux doesn't support it yet.

I personally could probably afford something more along the lines of a 
R4200 ($150) + motherboard ($150) + cheap eisa video ($150) + keyboard $33

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